The Pursuit

Thoughts on Compartmentalization

Monday, November 3rd, 2008 | church, comic strip, discipleship, fellowship, ministry, money, pastor, philosophy, prayer, preaching, sermon, service, teaching, tithe, tithing, tradition, worship | No Comments

Recently I’ve been thinking about compartmentalization… I’ve heard it preached on numerous occasions that we should not compartmentalize our Christian life. Usually the context is by acting one way on Sunday and another on Monday. I totally agree with this concept, out lives should be consistent - we should follow Christ every day, 24/7. However, I wonder if we do not practice what we preach. I looked around at our church life and realized that it is all very compartmentalized. Here are a few comic strips that illustrate my point:

Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with a scheduled time to sing, a scheduled time to teach, a scheduled time to fellowship, or a scheduled time to pray… but I wonder if we are not encouraging people to be compartmentalized by making their church life compartmentalized. This is when you sing, this is when you listen, this is when you pray, this is when you give, this is when we disciple, this is when we fellowship, etc. Is it really that much more of a leap to say “this is when you act like a Christian” and this is when it’s ok not too?

Help, I don’t want to go to church and other funny searches

Monday, January 21st, 2008 | Thanksgiving, bible, books, christmas, church, hell, holidays, humor, just for fun, ministry, money, pastor, prayer, teaching, ten commandments, tradition | 1 Comment

I use Google analytics to track what is happening on my blog. I get to see which pages are most popular, how long people spend at my blog, and also what people search for to end up on my blog. Here are the top 11 funniest searches I’ve had in the past 30 days (in no particular order).

01. “what’s a handbasket and why do we got to hell in one?” - Isn’t it obvious?

02. should christians believe in santa claus - Yes.

03. muslim vs. baptist - The fight of the century!

04. i need molds of the ten commandments - Don’t we all.

05. how to have church without programs book - I recommend the Bible.

06. help, i don’t want to go to church - Help?

07. thigs to be thankful to god for - Google, peanut butter, and two-ply toliet paper.

08. notes on how to have to be a good pastor wife - Amen.

09. is it biblical to pay church volunteers? - Volunteer?

10. god bless me just a little - Me too.

11. churches say they will forgive if you pay us money - Me too!

Money and the Church: A Fulltime Story

Thursday, November 15th, 2007 | church, deacon, ministry, money, overseer, pastor, preaching, sermon, service, synchroblog, teaching, tradition | 7 Comments

Today’s post is part of a synchroblog dealing with money and the church. It is a pretty broad topic, and many people are writing about different aspects of “money and the church.” At the bottom of this post you’ll find a list of links of other contributors to this subject. Today, I am going to write about some news I recently heard.

The other day I was speaking to one of our brothers. I asked him how things were going with the church that he met with. He told me about a recent deacon meeting. During the meeting the pastor told them that he was being stretched at all ends and something needed to change. His schedule is pretty cumbersome, he works full-time, he goes to classes (a couple per semester), and he teaches Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings. Apart from that I am not sure he has many other “duties” required of him by the church, but still doing all those things can be quite burdensome, especially when you have a wife and a few children to take care of.

At this meeting he gave them the break down of all his monthly needs/wants; he even made it clear that he would be willing to get rid of some luxuries to lower his monthly costs. He also made it clear that he wants to pastor this group. The deacons were in full agreement, they want a full-time vocational pastor. At the next business meeting, they’re suppose to bring it for all the members to vote on.

A few questions ran through my mind: Is this where God wants this man? What will happen if they vote against this? Will he leave or stay? Are there any other solutions that will free up his time? Is what he expects as a pastor biblical? Is what the deacons expect from a pastor biblical? Is what the rest of the members expects from a pastor biblical?

Paying this person extra money will allow him to quit his secular job. This will allow him to start doing visitations, more counseling, more studying, etc. From what I currently understand about “church,” I see this as a huge waste of money. As many of you know, I do not believe that pastor’s should receive a salary. Mainly because I do not see the majority of their “duties” in scripture. If we want to pay a person to visit, to counsel, and to study, than fine - it’s a free country - but that is not what makes a pastor.

Here is a recent Job Listing I was given for a “Family Minister/Associate Pastor”:

Description:
Needed at First Baptist Church in *****, NC, located in the beautiful mountains of Western North Carolina: A loving, passionate and spirit-filled individual who feels called to serve God as a minister for all age groups. This individual will be asked to work with Ministry teams and councils to reach withing the church and greater *****/***** County community by planning, coordinating, promoting and executing a comprehensive program of activities. Enthusiastically develop fellowship, Christian education, evangelistic outreach and visitation.

Requirements:
* Assist the Stewardship Ministry Team in preparing and administering the family ministries annual budget
* Preparing monthly calendar and reports
* Supervision of custodial staff
* Maintain scheduling and supervision of church vehicles
* Oversee construction projects and the furnishing, maintenance, staffing and operation of same
* Attending regularly scheduled staffing meetings and Church Council
* Assisting the Pastor in planning, conducting and evaluating congregational services.
* Must have a seminary degree - be an open minded person with a listening and discerning ear and spirit who is able to take initiative in a Godly way.

I do not think this strays too far from what you would normally find in a vocational pastor’s job description. This particular job is paying “$40,000 to $50,000 (includes housing, insurance, benefits).” The sentence, “A loving, passionate and spirit-filled individual who feels called to serve God as a minister for all age groups,” is probably the only line you will find in there that can be derived from scripture. But aren’t we all suppose to be loving? passionate? spirit-filled? Aren’t we all called to minister to all age groups? If so, why aren’t all the members being paid?

Some questions I thought of when reading this listing: Couldn’t a few people do these jobs for free? Do these jobs need to be done or are they luxury? What could we do with 40,000$ - 50,000$ every year in the community?

What do you think? Is paying a salary for a fulltime position a luxury that the church should forsake?

What happens when you put two taboo subjects together and discuss their relationship with each other? Find out by following the links to this month’s SynchroBlog. Money and Church is the topic. Do you think they belong together? or is it a problem when they meet? Follow the links, and watch the fur fly!

Here’s who’s in so far:

The Check That Controls at Igneous Quill
Pushing The Camel: Why there might be more rich people in Heaven than in your local Church at Fernando’s desk
Sally Coleman at Eternal Echoes
Lord, Won’t You Buy Me a Mercedes Benz at Hello Said Jenelle
Zaque at Johnny Beloved
Walking with the Camels at Calacirian
Greed and Bitterness: Why Nobody’s Got it Right About Money and The Church at Phil Wyman’s Square No More
Wealth Amidst Powers at Theocity
Money and the Church: A Fulltime Story at The Pursuit
But I Gave at Church at The Assembling of the Church
Moving Out of Jesus Neighborhood at Be the Revolution
Money and the Church: why the big fuss? at Mike’s Musings
Coffee Hour Morality at One Hand Clapping
Bling Bling in the Holy of Holies at In Reba’s World
Magazinial Outreach at Decompressing Faith
Money’s too tight to mention at Out of the Cocoon
Bullshit at The Agent B Files
The Bourgeois Elephant in the Missional/Emergent Living Room at Headspace
When the Church Gives at Payneful Memories
Who, or What, Do You Worship at at Charis Shalom
Greed at Hollow Again
Silver and Gold Have We - Oops! at Subversive Influence
The Church and Money at Khanya

Resources, Conversions, and Priorities…

Tuesday, June 5th, 2007 | church, ministry, money, tithe, tithing, tradition | 5 Comments

Here is the average church budget according to Lifeway (HT: Alan).

49% - Staff Personnel
9% - All Other
5% - Missions Evangelism
7% - Computers, Office Supplies, Literature
9% - Denominational Contributions
9% - Utilities
13% - Buildings, Rent, Mortgage, Capital Funds, Projects

To simplify this, I will group, “Computers…,” “Utilities,” and “Buildlings…” into one group called “Structure Costs.”

49% - Staff Personnel
29% - Structure Costs
9% - All Other
5% - Missions Evangelism
9% - Denominational Contributions

I am going to be VERY generous and say that 100% of the “All Other,” “Missions Evangelism,” and “Denominational Contributions” are used directly towards some sort of discipleship/evangelism/missions/etc. project, which we will label as “Good Works.” Thus making our statistics look like:

49% - Staff Personnel
29% - Structure Costs
23% - Good Works

So, on average, 23% of any money you drop in the offering plate MIGHT be used for some sort of “good work.” And we probably can all agree the 9% sent as “Denominational contributions” is probably cut in half by administration costs, and I have no idea what “All Other” means. To be safe we can say that of the money you give, only about 5%-23% is used for some sort of mission outreach program.

(Here is some more information about where your money goes CP, IMB)

In Masters Plan of Making Disciples, Arn takes a poll of how people “came to their new relationship with Christ and their church.” This is what the poll looks liked: (NOTE: I do not always trust statistics, but I have a feeling these are fairly accurate)

I wonder, if 75-90% of all conversions happen because of a friend/relative, why do we spend most of our resources on building buildings, instead of building relationships?

Think about it.

P.S. Geoff Baggett has some interesting posts with some more information about some of these money issues (The Great Commission (Part. 1) - More than Money?, Cooperative Program $ - Mostly Staying in Your Home State).

The Bible Talks More About Money Than Hell

Thursday, December 21st, 2006 | money, preaching, teaching, tithe, tithing | 3 Comments

Over the past several years as a Christian I have heard many sermons. I have started to notice a trend, teachers often cite the “fact” that the Bible talks more about “money” than hell (or whatever else). I am sure you have heard the same or similar statements, if not, you probably will in the future. Usually there is a number associated with this bit of trivia - somewhere around 2,000 times. The point the teacher is usually trying to make is that God thinks money is a very important issue and it is usually tied to a sermon about tithing.

Anyways, on my way into the office this morning I got to thinking about this and thought to myself - I have read the Bible, it’s not that big of a book and I do not remember it being filled with over 2,000 discussions on money (or finances, etc.). I wonder where they got this number and what the number actually represents.

I was hoping to be able to type in a few keywords into Google and find a site that listed all of 2,000 verse that discuss money - I was shocked to find none. Instead, I found more sermon related notes with the same similar quotes. I did, however, find this site, which claims there are “roughly 2,350 verses concerning money.” It goes on to say that this number is “twice as many as faith and prayer combined” and that “fifteen percent of everything Jesus said related to money and possessions.” Bingo - “He spoke about money and possessions more than heaven and hell combined.”

Of course this still does not help me - as I said earlier, I have read the Bible and even in just the New Testament I did not find Jesus speaking more about money than any other topic. To be perfectly honest I do not really recall Jesus speaking more about any topic - well perhaps the Kingdom of Heaven or Him being the Messiah (in round about ways).

As I read the previous website I noticed the bottom, they have provided us with a list of topics concerning money and then verses that support those topics. I quickly realized that this number of 2,350 is exaggerated and over-inflated. They actually have a topic called “Funding the Great Commission” and list two of the parables concerning the Kingdom of Heaven (the Parable of the Mustard Seed and the Parable of the Leaven). They also have a topic called “Tithing” which lists the Parable of New Wine in Old Wineskins.

Well, I am pretty sure that the neither the Bible nor Jesus talked about money half as much as some teachers claim they do. I also found this site which pretty much puts this topic to rest. What do you all think?

Next time your teacher tells you this, ask them for the evidence - if they have any, send it my way.

God Bless,
Lew A

P.S. Jesus never said “Go therefore and fund the making of disciples of all the nations…” - check out this blog for more things Jesus never said.

The Tithing Pastor – A True Conundrum

Wednesday, December 20th, 2006 | money, pastor, tithe, tithing | 2 Comments

At graduation rehearsal we heard a small message about the importance of tithing. During the message the speaker told us that the pastor should be giving a tithe to the local church no matter what. The speaker testified that he and his wife ALWAYS gave to their local church, no matter what. They relied on God to provide for them when they did not have enough money after giving their tithe.

Now this blog is not about the theology of tithing. Which by the way, I do not think Christian are required to do (for many biblically practical reasons). This blog is about the paradox created by having a pastor tithe – which is probably the first reason that I started thinking about whether or not it is taught for every Christian to do.

Situation: The church pays a yearly salary to a vocational pastor of 50,000$. This pastor believes tithing is required for all Christians and puts a tithe in the “offering plate” on a weekly basis.

Problem: Part of the pastor’s tithe goes back to the pastor – so in reality he is not giving a real tithe.

If you are not sure what I am talking about, here are the numbers:
The church brings in 200,000$ per year from tithes.
The church pays a vocation pastor 50,000$ a year (from the tithes).
So then, 25% of the church income goes to the pastor’s salary.

Ok, the pastor gives a tithe from his salary, so, 5,000$ from his 50,000$ a year from the pastor.
Since 25% of the yearly church tithes are given to the pastor’s salary, 1,250$ of the pastors yearly 5,000$ in tithes goes back into his pocket.
In reality the pastor is only giving three-quarters of a tithe every year.

Solution: The pastor must be required to give a specific amount more than a tithe each year. In the case I have laid out the pastor would need to give a little more than 13% to have actually given a tithe. This percentage changes depending on what percentage of the total tithe goes to the pastor’s salary.

So go tell your pastors, if they aren’t giving more than a tithe, they aren’t given a tithe at all and are therefore robbing God.

Enjoy.